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Post by Ramen on Sept 25, 2014 2:04:56 GMT
So the mods at AFMB proposed a series of really bad ideas to change ABF. A lot of us explained in calm, reasoning, and logical terms why those were really bad ideas. The response was to treat us like crap, insult us, and group us in with people whose behavior we had for years called out.
They caught so much blowback that less than 24 hours later they completely reversed their heavy-handed approach and adopted a lot of the ideas we suggested...while never acknowledging they were wrong, especially in their condescending dismissive manner.
Guvmintcheeze, at the request of several of us, restarted the FFF and has spent hours getting it set up. So several of us came over here and registered and started posting because we felt like they had destroyed AFB. This place offered an alternative to what they had created.
Not sure how much of an effect it had, but they did the right thing in the end. They enacted changed like making Monoxide a moderator and letting him reverse their new rules. And Monoxide appears to be doing exactly what he needs to do.
A lot of us like Monoxide, think he's a great choice, and appreciate what he's doing. I suspect he'll make the place better.
But for me, that's not enough to support the AFMB with continued participation. In other words, I'm not going to post there so long as FFF is viable.
For one thing, I have no reason to think that the underlying problem is gone. Monoxide aside, it still looks like the moderating staff is prone to power trips and heavy-handed tactics. There's still condescension towards the entire ABF community in the minds of many of them.
Another reason is that while things have mellowed now, it's very likely that people are going to start pushing boundaries and testing things, which could prompt the heavy-handed response again and imposition of the rules and/or elimination of the forum. So I'd rather commit to a place where I *know* that I'm not going to have those problems. I don't want to have to fight with the mods and get treated like crap, only to have them later realize they screwed up and ultimately be forced to do the right thing. Just not worth my effort.
Put simply, after spending a lot of time suggesting solutions, after getting dismissed and insulted and treated like crap, I don't feel the inclination to go running back to them just because they finally recognized the mistakes we all tried to warn them they were making.
Those are my thoughts on the situation, anyway. I'm sticking here so long as it's viable, and it will be viable if enough people commit to the place. And the best way to continue building these boards is to ask people you know to come over here and to be active on the boards. My two cents.
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Post by JDaveG on Sept 25, 2014 2:21:03 GMT
I'll post there, but it will be heavily self-censored. I have no intention of even getting close to the lines they drew yesterday. You just never know when they're going to lose their shit again.
I like Monoxide. But if Tuggle was right, it wasn't Tuggle and Banker calling the shots. It may be the Nuremberg defense, but that doesn't change the fact that someone else was supposedly driving the train. I don't think Tuggle was lying about that, but if one wants to assume he was, that makes it worse, not better.
Bottom line, I think the people ultimately in charge of that board are incompetent and are pushing rules down from above and periodically micromanaging the forum. That isn't going to change no matter how awesome a guy Monoxide is. Tuggle was an awesome guy too, but he had to do what he was told to do. I'll be posting here a lot more than there.
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Post by Ramen on Sept 25, 2014 2:38:15 GMT
I'll post there, but it will be heavily self-censored. I have no intention of even getting close to the lines they drew yesterday. You just never know when they're going to lose their shit again. I like Monoxide. But if Tuggle was right, it wasn't Tuggle and Banker calling the shots. It may be the Nuremberg defense, but that doesn't change the fact that someone else was supposedly driving the train. I don't think Tuggle was lying about that, but if one wants to assume he was, that makes it worse, not better. Bottom line, I think the people ultimately in charge of that board are incompetent and are pushing rules down from above and periodically micromanaging the forum. That isn't going to change no matter how awesome a guy Monoxide is. Tuggle was an awesome guy too, but he had to do what he was told to do. I'll be posting here a lot more than there. The one thing that I really hope is that Monoxide doesn't adopt the "power trip mod" mentality. I was really shocked by Tuggle's handling of it, and even more shocked at how unprepared he seemed to be for the situation. That's not his fault. As Guvmint said, it looks like he got thrown into this mess. It was probably unfair to him, honestly. But yeah, like you said it looks like these orders are coming down from above, which means that they are forced into untenable and impossible situations like what we've seen the last few days. It was a slow-moving train wreck and if the mods are being forced to defend policies and changes that they are indefensible, then I feel for them and it's yet another reason to focus my time and energy on FFF and making these boards the place we all want it to be. Aside from getting treated like crap, I also don't have the inclination to put in a lot of effort posting over there just to see that investment in time and energy wiped away because someone up the ladder wants to play tough guy. To be clear, I strongly oppose some kind of "you're either here or you're there" group mentality that caused a lot of conflicts across boards in the past. I'm just saying that, for myself, I'm not going to post over there as long as we have these forums. It's just a personal decision that I'm making.
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Post by jpowers on Sept 25, 2014 2:42:59 GMT
I'll post there, but it will be heavily self-censored. I have no intention of even getting close to the lines they drew yesterday. You just never know when they're going to lose their shit again. I like Monoxide. But if Tuggle was right, it wasn't Tuggle and Banker calling the shots. It may be the Nuremberg defense, but that doesn't change the fact that someone else was supposedly driving the train. I don't think Tuggle was lying about that, but if one wants to assume he was, that makes it worse, not better. Bottom line, I think the people ultimately in charge of that board are incompetent and are pushing rules down from above and periodically micromanaging the forum. That isn't going to change no matter how awesome a guy Monoxide is. Tuggle was an awesome guy too, but he had to do what he was told to do. I'll be posting here a lot more than there. The one thing that I really hope is that Monoxide doesn't adopt the "power trip mod" mentality. I was really shocked by Tuggle's handling of it, and even more shocked at how unprepared he seemed to be for the situation. That's not his fault. As Guvmint said, it looks like he got thrown into this mess. It was probably unfair to him, honestly. But yeah, like you said it looks like these orders are coming down from above, which means that they are forced into untenable and impossible situations like what we've seen the last few days. It was a slow-moving train wreck and if the mods are being forced to defend policies and changes that they are indefensible, then I feel for them and it's yet another reason to focus my time and energy on FFF and making these boards the place we all want it to be. Aside from getting treated like crap, I also don't have the inclination to put in a lot of effort posting over there just to see that investment in time and energy wiped away because someone up the ladder wants to play tough guy. To be clear, I strongly oppose some kind of "you're either here or you're there" group mentality that caused a lot of conflicts across boards in the past. I'm just saying that, for myself, I'm not going to post over there as long as we have these forums. It's just a personal decision that I'm making. I'm never going to be a frequent poster but I'm liking this board more and more.I've spent more time over here today than I have ABF because most of my favorite posters are over here now as well and posting more here then over there.
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Post by Ramen on Sept 25, 2014 3:00:17 GMT
I'm never going to be a frequent poster but I'm liking this board more and more.I've spent more time over here today than I have ABF because most of my favorite posters are over here now as well and posting more here then over there. No worries. All I ask is that you tell quality people about the place and encourage them to check it out and participate. We don't want d-bags and trolls, just people who have some smarts and a good sense of humor. We're off to a good start and it would be nice if we could get some momentum going.
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Post by Guvmintcheeze on Sept 25, 2014 3:02:21 GMT
The one thing that I really hope is that Monoxide doesn't adopt the "power trip mod" mentality. I was really shocked by Tuggle's handling of it, and even more shocked at how unprepared he seemed to be for the situation. That's not his fault. As Guvmint said, it looks like he got thrown into this mess. It was probably unfair to him, honestly. But yeah, like you said it looks like these orders are coming down from above, which means that they are forced into untenable and impossible situations like what we've seen the last few days. It was a slow-moving train wreck and if the mods are being forced to defend policies and changes that they are indefensible, then I feel for them and it's yet another reason to focus my time and energy on FFF and making these boards the place we all want it to be. Aside from getting treated like crap, I also don't have the inclination to put in a lot of effort posting over there just to see that investment in time and energy wiped away because someone up the ladder wants to play tough guy. To be clear, I strongly oppose some kind of "you're either here or you're there" group mentality that caused a lot of conflicts across boards in the past. I'm just saying that, for myself, I'm not going to post over there as long as we have these forums. It's just a personal decision that I'm making. I'm never going to be a frequent poster but I'm liking this board more and more.I've spent more time over here today than I have ABF because most of my favorite posters are over here now as well and posting more here then over there. Well you know,..we like to move it move it...
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jr
New Member
Posts: 16
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Post by jr on Sept 25, 2014 9:42:16 GMT
Would I be out of place if I said the rules really didn't bother me. I only post in the humor, food and comic threads. I'm just neutral I guess
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Post by JDaveG on Sept 25, 2014 11:12:33 GMT
Would I be out of place if I said the rules really didn't bother me. I only post in the humor, food and comic threads. I'm just neutral I guess I wouldn't say out of place, but I'd ask you to consider what you'd think if they said "no humor, food or comic discussion." And did it the way they said "no politics, religion or race."
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Post by googlywoogly on Sept 25, 2014 12:26:44 GMT
Tuggle was complaining that the 1st political thread posted after the prohibition was lifted has "already received many reports". I went and carefully read the entire thread and didn't see anything remotely report worthy. So either there were some out of line posts in that thread that where deleted, or Tuggle just looks at report numbers and assumes they are all legit.
As an aside, and I mean this in the most light hearted way possible, I'm sure Monoxide is a great person, but I refuse to support or respect anyone who calls Jimmy Page a "no talent hack". If you don't dig Jimmy's music that is fine, but proclaiming him to have no talent is absurd.
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Post by mdrake34 on Sept 25, 2014 12:29:05 GMT
Can we all agree that if they attempt to sign up here, no truthhurts, no steve, no doozer, and no steampunk? I'm sure I'm forgetting others, but they're just awful. I'm all for opposing viewpoints, but they would instantly bring this place downwards.
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Post by googlywoogly on Sept 25, 2014 12:31:26 GMT
I am probably in the minority but I like having people like the above as members because part of the entertainment for me is watching other sane people ridicule them. I'm probably weird though...
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Post by JDaveG on Sept 25, 2014 12:32:23 GMT
Tuggle was complaining that the 1st political thread posted after the prohibition was lifted has "already received many reports". I went and carefully read the entire thread and didn't see anything remotely report worthy. So either there were some out of line posts in that thread that where deleted, or Tuggle just looks at report numbers and assumes they are all legit. As an aside, and I mean this in the most light hearted way possible, I'm sure Monoxide is a great person, but I refuse to support or respect anyone who calls Jimmy Page a "no talent hack". If you don't dig Jimmy's music that is fine, but proclaiming him to have no talent is absurd. I'm not going to waste my time checking, but the whole thing about "reports" smelled to me all along. I think someone up the line doesn't like that forum and doesn't want it to exist. I'm not sure why. Probably some political deal where activist groups might get wind of something and then the Falcons become the next big stink-up like the Hawks or Clippers, but that seems to me to be incredibly paranoid. But in any event, I'm convinced there aren't a lot of posts there being reported by members of the forum. When they came in talking about what a cesspool it was, my first thought was "are you kidding me?"
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Post by JDaveG on Sept 25, 2014 12:32:58 GMT
I am probably in the minority but I like having people like the above as members because part of the entertainment for me is watching other sane people ridicule them. I'm probably weird though... They wouldn't last. Steve would get pounced on and run off immediately. The rest would hang themselves given the amount of rope Guv will give us here.
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Post by JDaveG on Sept 25, 2014 12:42:17 GMT
LKP/FU folks aren't bad when they're away from the OMB. A lot of them basically go there just to stir up shit, so their personas there are different than when they are on other boards.
I don't post at either board, but we've had some of them on FFF back in the old days and they were fine. I'm pretty sure some of them are on this board now.
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Post by mdrake34 on Sept 25, 2014 12:53:55 GMT
Boyfalcon might be my all-time favorite person online.
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