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Post by Radical on Oct 7, 2014 19:09:09 GMT
I'd like to hear an explanation to some of the following assertions:
The universe is finely tuned to host life.
Earth is a miraculous, perfect place for life.
I'd also like to know the need for an objective morality.
Now... GO!
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Post by googlywoogly on Oct 7, 2014 19:49:14 GMT
I don't agree with any of those assertions, but feel compelled to offer this in rebuttal to anyone who does subscribe to number 2 above:
The earth is actually one extremely jacked up madhouse where every living thing is trapped, with a hard wired instinct to survive at all cost, and must consume the other denizens, who are likewise trapped here and want to live as long as possible, to remain alive. It might be, arguably, miraculous in the sense that its a huge cosmic mistake/accident to begin with, but it is nowhere near perfect.
(Not sure that large run on sentence passes muster on the grammar, my apologies for that).
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Post by Guvmintcheeze on Oct 7, 2014 20:21:00 GMT
I don't agree with any of those assertions, but feel compelled to offer this in rebuttal to anyone who does subscribe to number 2 above: The earth is actually one extremely jacked up madhouse where every living thing is trapped, with a hard wired instinct to survive at all cost, and must consume the other denizens, who are likewise trapped here and want to live as long as possible, to remain alive. It might be, arguably, miraculous in the sense that its a huge cosmic mistake/accident to begin with, but it is nowhere near perfect.
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Post by JDaveG on Oct 7, 2014 20:42:48 GMT
I'd like to hear an explanation to some of the following assertions: The universe is finely tuned to host life. Earth is a miraculous, perfect place for life. I'd also like to know the need for an objective morality. Now... GO! I don't have time to get too deep into it today, but I'll briefly address each. 1) I'd be more interested in whether anyone denies this. "Fine tuned" doesn't mean "designed by God" in this instance. It simply means that absent certain constants (the gravitational constant being a good example), not only could the universe not sustain life, but in fact it could not exist at all. Some attempt to refute this with the anthropic principle, but I don't buy it because it's too convenient. Just a fraction off on the cosmological constant, for example, and the universe would collapse in on itself. The odds of the universe existing in its present form and able to host life are astronomically small. That's one reason things like multiverse theory are gaining popularity, though the problem with multiverse theory is it isn't exactly scientific, since no one has ever observed a multiverse. Nonetheless, the hypothesis that there might be some huge number of universes out there is an attempt by scientists to explain how ours managed to work out in exactly the perfect form to host life. If there are a huge number of other universes, then the odds at some point begin to favor a life-permitting universe. 2) I haven't heard anyone make this argument and see no need to defend it. There is certainly no reason to pretend that the Earth is somehow the only place in the universe that could ever possibly host life. At this point in time, it is the only place in our solar system that could do so, but I don't have any reason to extrapolate that to some wider claim that the Earth is the only place ever anywhere that could possibly host life. 3) There isn't one. There is an observation of certain objective moral values and duties, and this observation leads one to the conclusion that there must be a foundation for objective morality. If one wishes to refute the existence of objective morality, one can do so, but then one has really no basis for any morality at all beyond their own nose.
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Post by googlywoogly on Oct 7, 2014 20:42:56 GMT
I don't agree with any of those assertions, but feel compelled to offer this in rebuttal to anyone who does subscribe to number 2 above: The earth is actually one extremely jacked up madhouse where every living thing is trapped, with a hard wired instinct to survive at all cost, and must consume the other denizens, who are likewise trapped here and want to live as long as possible, to remain alive. It might be, arguably, miraculous in the sense that its a huge cosmic mistake/accident to begin with, but it is nowhere near perfect. Yea, I'm sick & hopped up on prescription cough medicine, steroids, and amoxicllin. Maybe I'll just go climb into bed now.
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Post by Dago on Oct 7, 2014 20:59:18 GMT
you should take those drugs more often
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Post by JDaveG on Oct 7, 2014 21:04:49 GMT
googlywoogly, I assumed you had been watching "The Walking Dead."
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Post by googlywoogly on Oct 7, 2014 22:28:04 GMT
googlywoogly, I assumed you had been watching "The Walking Dead." I can honestly say I've never watched one episode of The Walking Dead. I don't do scary stuff in general, and zombie stuff in particular. I understand from comments made to by friends who watch it religiously that it isn't really a show about zombies, but instead a good story that happens to have zombies in it. I don't watch any of those ghost shows or alien abduction shows that come on TV either. That stuff creeps me out and I don't have any desire to have the poop scared out of me. Assuming you assumed this because similar themes as my rambling drug induced monologue up there? I like to think I"m not the only freakshow weirdo out there that ponders, and even dwells on, at times reality. The bit up there is one of the themes I keep trying to terms with. You have to admit this is one jacked up place...
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Post by JDaveG on Oct 8, 2014 10:35:13 GMT
It was the "survive at all costs" line that made me think of it.
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Post by NewFalcon on Oct 8, 2014 15:03:08 GMT
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Post by JDaveG on Oct 9, 2014 0:12:31 GMT
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